Mali, some readers may recognize your name form Bear Book II. For readers who do not know you, could you tell them a little bit about yourself?

This is Mehmet Ali Sahin AKA Mali (AKA Memdali). I'm a 35 years old small type of guy who admires bears. I live in Ankara, Turkey and been in the international bear scene in one way or another since 1997. I am coupled by a teddy bear for last three years.

I studied ceramics and glass in faculty of arts but after my graduation I decided to change my profession, so I became a graphics designer. Nowadays I work as an interaction and GUI designer and a web master for a multimedia company producing educational titles for different countries of the world.

In bear related stuff, I’m the web master, secretary and spokesman (if there’s one) of Bears of Turkey. I’m also doing the website for Bears of Athens.

Some of your readers might recognize me from the “International Bears” interview in Ron Suresha’s “Bears on Bears”.

When did you first know you were a bear? How did you come out?

I've always been into big-hairy men with facial hair since I was young, and I was wearing facial hair too. But I had no idea of bears at that time. I was not much into Turkey's gay life. It was much more different than it is today; it was totally underground. In those days, to be gay, you had to be feminine and bottom. Guys who top these feminine guys were not really gay neither bisexual, they were just "man" who filled every hole they could find.

I tried to be in that scene but soon I was bored of being judged by my look, my attitude and my tastes. So, I decided to not to be a part of that so called scene. I started a relation with a friend of a friend then completely put myself into my closet.

After years, my relation was at its end, I tried to get back to gay life but found out that it is still the same. There were a group of people trying to fight for GL rights but the rest of the life was still the same and was not or me. Then years passed in the closet, in 1997 I started using the Internet One day I was looking for pictures of hairy men. So, I met the word "bear" on a website. That day, my life changed a lot. A week later, I was out of the closet, knowing what I was and what I wanted.

What is your life like as a gay man in Turkey?

As a bear living in a big city, life is fine here. Many of the men in streets look like bears. But, sorry to say that by late 90’s, men in big cities started to evolve into something what people would call "metrosexual" and am not happy about it. Those bellies, body and facial hair started to disappear. There are always bear type guys around but not as much as they used to be.

It was fun to be invisible in the city with my usual look and attitude. Being one of them and being gay (sometimes shouting this out loud) is fun. And it's been told that 99% of Turkish men are into male to male sex. Think about a country that many men are in bear type and they have a %99 potential. Isn’t it heaven? Well, I'm kidding but I can't say that these are all urban legends, there's truth in it.

On the serious perspective, being gay is a hard job here as gay people are not accepted by law and society. On the other hand there's the religion. 99% of Turkey's population are Muslim. In Islamic life, homosexuality is forbidden and all homos will be punished in hell. In daily life, the situation is not that bad but its a truth that there are hate crimes and discrimination against gay people. Although there is nothing against gay people in law, police like to use "public morale" issues against gay people.

Personally, I haven't been in such situation. I had no problems with police because I'm gay. I had problems with my family when they saw my pictures with my partner on a magazine (picturing a meeting or families and friends of GL people, will tell you later), nowadays we're not seeing each other and act like the other party doesn't exist. But I had no problems in business life as they've seen the same pictures. I'm told that they discussed the possible unwanted situations that'd be caused about my gayness. But not about me, about the potential homophobes.

GL people and the fight for GL rights (and governments discrimination) became visible to public with Kirkpindar and Kusadasi incidents. And things are getting better day by day. I'm hoping that this EU thing will be much better or us as GL people will be in law soon.

Anyway, as long as you are careful, life is not bad here. I mean, being effeminate means that you are not careful, so you will have many problems. And about transvestites/transsexuals, they're life is not better than they would have in hell.

What was your involvement in the first days of the bear movement in Turkey?

I was one of the two guys who made the idea of "bear" visible in Turkey. It was 1998. We decided to import the idea and worked hard on it. We tried to have a space for ourselves in growing gay scene of Turkey. We were using the Internet a lot, we met other bears (who had no idea about being a bear) and a few admirers. As the word spread, guys using nicknames about bears started to be seen often. Then we decided to meet for the first time in July'98 but as we were only 12 guys, personal problems blocked our way and we failed. Those were the days when I was working on my article or Bear Book II.

I sent my article, and started to email people for another attempt. In September 5, 1998 we managed to meet. There were only 6 of us, but it was wonderful. Then I started a website and a mailing list, so the "Bear movement in Turkey" started.

How has the bear phenomenon- or movement, or community-developed since the 1990s?

In first years it was not developing, we were meeting monthly, mostly with 15-20 guys. We were doing everything on the Internet as we could not carry ourselves to real life and decided to do it.

In 2000, we decided to do a big event in Istanbul, which we named it "AYIstos" (AYI means 'bear' in Turkish and Agustos is August), it was going to be an international meeting. During one of the organization meetings we saw that day’s newspaper and there was a big picture of Kirkpinar wrestlers. It was a nice picture with many bear type wrestlers. One of my friends said that we should organize a trip to that years wrestling tournament too. Then we did.

A few days after we put the information about our organizations to our website, it was on the news. We had not started to advertise our events but it did it by itself. The next day, the governor of Edirne banned gay people from the event. It was a shocking wave of news spreading all over the world (I'm sure you've felt it too). Newspapers, television stations, radio... We were everywhere. It was a real chaos and were dangerous days for us. Media was head hunting us, we were receiving hate emails from extreme right nationalists. News were everywhere in the world, as Reuters did spread it. Then we canceled both our organizations but the madness did not stop for about 3 months more. At the end, it came to a position which "gay ban from" was not news anymore. We received many supporting emails too but there were none from our government. This incident and interviews with papers following it, there were news that Bears of Turkey did exist in this country, and also that there were discrimination in Turkey against gay people.

Some months later, there was another incident that was connected to Kirkpindar. In September, a group of gay tourists who wanted to visit Ephesus were returned on the way by the police. The governor of Kusadasi told that reason for this was a decree of government after Kirkpindar incident saying that gay people would not be allowed inside the borders (even if they were foreigners). This caused another shock wave. It remained on the news many days too, but this time it was stronger. After US ambassador's visit to foreign ministry, these gay people who were returned by police on the road to Ephesus were welcomed in a traditional way in Istanbul. Red carpets, Turkish delight etc. Another proof of discrimination.

At the end of 2000, there was a research done by a national magazine about “people who were talked about most during the year” and Ayilar.net (Bears of Turkey) were at number 6 out of 100.

These two events that helped us to have our own space in Turkish gay scene that consisted Lambda Istanbul, Kaos GL and Gay Ankara. These also made us "GL rights activists" too.

There were some more news and some more interviews followed. None of them caused a real effect but the one about our meeting to test the potential of a project for friends and families of gay people. You have PFLAG there for years, but we have no such organization or group. The article was printed in 6 pages with photographs of some of those participated. In the meeting there were friends, colleagues, sisters, mothers and a wife of our members. Feedback to this article was good, not all about the project itself but the image of gay men who absolutely didn’t have the media-pumped image. And these guys were shouting out loud that they are gay and were exposing themselves in front of the camera without shame. This project is going very slowly, but after that article we have gained more reputation and more members.

Nowadays, we try to stay silent in the ears of the media. Meeting bimonthly, enjoying the company of each other. I have to tell that these meetings are not like the ones we’ve been seeing on the Internet, of course. Ours are less sex oriented, two days gatherings spent mostly with chit-chat and social entertainment.

How many bear clubs are there? Where are they? What is gay life like in those places?

There are two. Bears of Turkey and Bear Anatolia. But none is a real club. Just groups of guys who are bears or admirers. Bears of Turkey celebrated its 5^th anniversary in September 2003.

In late 2000, some of the members of BOT decided to leave due to personal and perspective issues and formed the new group. These two groups look like the same, share members and do almost the same things. There was an invisible barrier between these two groups until late 2002. No one understood the reason to separate into two groups as everything looks the same. I would say “personal reasons”, but Bearanatolians will disapprove.

Are there other bear events or activities or groups in Turkey?

I’ve told you about the groups. Now the activities:

As I said, Bears of Turkey meet bimonthly. These are two days gatherings or fun. We prefer public places during the day (remember that we are invisible in public) and spend time in bear bars/discos at night.

Bear Anatolia, meets once in 3 months in Istanbul. Do the same things that we do, go to same places that we go.

There is this activity titled “BearNite” organized by both groups. The first BearNite was organized to raise some cash or a HIV+ bear buddy. There were 120-130 people. The second of BearNite was done in June 2003 to support the magazine “Pençe” of BearAnatolia, there were more than 150 bears-admirers attended and we made good money.

What is the relationship between bears and other gay men and groups in Turkey?

The relationship between these two groups was broken but is getting better. Maybe someday we’ll be as good as we were, but both sides are not sure that I we’ll be one again.

Gay groups and organizations in Turkey are local groups. There are two big ones, Lambda Istanbul and Kaos GL. Beside these, there are Antalya Rainbow, Izmir Pink Triangle, and some small groups that come and go.

There are two big gay gatherings in Turkey. Baharankara held during bahar (spring) months in Ankara, Güztanbul during güz (autumn) in Istanbul. Relationships of these groups are really not so strong. But they are supporting each other when needed. This looks artificial to me, everyone is doing their own job and would never let the other get involved.

Have bears been recognized by the mainstream (heterosexual) Turkish person?

They absolutely are not.

As I said before, we do not prefer gay places to spend our time. We want better food, better atmosphere and cheaper prices. We decided not to go to gay places as long as we can not get these, why to pay double or triple price for the same cup of coffee?

I think your question has a new meaning now. Here’s my reply:

Of course, people pay attention to a bunch of furry-big guys, no matter they are walking in the street or having their meals/drinks at a cafe. As I’ve told you that the standard look of Turkish men was/is a bear look, we are completely invisible in public.

We’ve been hearing stories about mainstream people who are questioning big furry guys around them if they would be one of these “ayilar” (bears) or not, which I think it is wonderful to know that mainstream people started to question the media-pumped gay image.

But, someone recognized us in year 2k. We were in Subway Sandwich and were having our breakfast. There were about 20 of us. Then the manager approached to me and asked me if “You guys from the Internet will meet here every week?”. I replied him “Dunno!” but he wanted us to be there in every two weeks or at least once in a month. Of course he was thinking about sandwiches he would sell, but is also a proof that as long as you stay in your circle no commercial/public place will refuse us even they recognize us.

A question of personal interest to me. When I lived in then-West Germany for much of the 1970s I saw, but rarely had any social contact with, many Turkish men, the so-called Turkish Gastarbeiter, or "guest workers." These were formative years for me in understanding social class differences in ways that exist throughout the world, but are usually little appreciated by Americans (everyone in the US is "middle-class"-a remarkably flexible category indeed). "Guest worker" is a euphemism for imported manual labor and. Regardless of social class in Turkey, guest workers were distinctly at the low end of the social order. And I, on the other hand, found myself in the remarkable position of being identified as "upper middle class," because of my status as a university student. (In Germany less than 2% of the people ever attend university, and fewer still actually complete the doctorate.) On the other hand, during the late 1990s I had a lot of Turkish students in my classes. Prior to 9/11 my college experienced a large influx of upper and upper-middle-class Turkish students. And I found myself being treated like a servant by them., granted, a relatively respectable one. But it is striking to me the vast difference between the two ends of the social spectrum. It would be impossible for me to draw any meaningful picture of middle class life in Turkey, least of all as a gay man, native or foreigner.

Could you tell our readers more about gender and sexual orientation social divisions in Turkish culture?

No I couldn’t. Sorry. :P

I think there are only three social classes left, after last two economical crisis that affected the country since 2000. During the last three years, middle class became a part of the lower class and upper middle class took place of middle class. Middle class means that you have enough money or your vital expenses and spare some money for social and cultural needs (eating out, buying books, going to a movie, etc.). And high class is really high. And it’s the same in gay life too.

Clubs for higher class are way too expensive and most of its customers are wannabes that are dreaming of being a high class person but know that they will never be. I have to tell that in these places have negative attitude against bears and are “no bears allowed”, as bears don’t it into their gay idea, and you would be rejected at the entrance. But of course money talks, and if you show your “class” with your clothes, your perfume, your car and your jewelry, being a big-furry-bearded guy is not a real problem. If you can get in, you will see hundreds of people whom you will never see in any other gay place. Most of them are still in closet, and would never come out, even to themselves. They live their so called gay life in those clubs. You easily can notice wannabes with their imitation clothes, jewelry etc. God, I hate those clubs, seen three of them and each time I felt like I was in a circus. Anyway…

Lower class persons usually don’t go to any clubs (maybe just because they can not afford it), as they are still in closet too. They sure will marry and pretend like they are heterosexuals. I name these as “married gays”. They prefer not to get involved in, don’t want to have a stable relationship, just “hit & run”. You see these guys often in parks, movies, bars and hammams.

Now the middle class, as usual, is anywhere. It has the highest rate of coming out amongst other classes. I don’t know what to tell more about the middle class. I think it has no different than yours. 

Probably the one thing American bears are likely to be aware of is Kirkpinar. Images, mostly bootleg digital images form the Web, sometimes turn up in bears' prized collections. Can you explain what the game is about, its sports culture, and its place in Turkish bears' minds and hearts?

The game looks like a usual wrestling game. But these guys cover themselves with olive oil, this makes them slippery and makes the game harder. Kirkpinar is more a tradition than a tournament. Its history goes back to 14^th century.

To some people, the game (or the view) has the same effect that the sweet smell of a flower has on a bee. Big, strong, muscled men in leather trousers, oiled skin shining under the sun… Just try to visualize it, you would understand what I mean.

Anyway, I think that Kirkpinar’s place is neither that big nor important in our hearts and minds. I accept that the game (I should say ‘guys’) is a real eye-candy and fun to watch. But we really don’t care much about it. Maybe it’s because it has a “P.I.T.A.” status for us.

Have you personally, or other bears in Turkey, experienced much international networking? That is, do many Turkish bears travel across Europe, or frequent the US? And vice versa, has there been a significant rise in American and European gay male bears visiting Turkey? And if so, have been in search of anything other than Turkish bears? And, well, how ARE the bears in Turkey?

My personal experience is not that much in international scene. I would say that I have NONE! I’ve never been outside Turkey, never been in an event. I have friends from countries all around the world that I stay in touch with emails or phone calls, but I’ve not meet some of them in person yet. But I have friends that came to Turkey to visit me.

There are Turkish bears travel across Europe and US. They usually use the Internet to get in touch with local bears. I think bears use the Internet efficiently and it is very easy to meet local guys before your trip.

Turkey is a good place or a holiday. It’s cheap and has many sights and sites. There are many emails we receive during the year (mostly in high season) from foreign bears visiting Turkey (mostly Istanbul), asking for information about gay/bear life. We try to do what we can for them. They want to know about the local bear life, but they want to see the sites and sights too.

The number of these visitors are rising every year, for example this year there were too many of them so sometimes all we could do is to give him the URL of the page we did for them. I’ve never thought of the reason for this rise in numbers of the visitors. Maybe they were coming in past too but our word spread and they started to get in touch, maybe a visible bear group make their minds to come here, maybe a vacation in Turkey gets cheaper and cheaper or maybe Turkish Tourism Ministry does its job very well.

Anyway, there are many places to see in Turkey. But if they want to come here for Turkish bears, it’s OK too. The image of Turkish men changes but there are still too many bears around. They are warm and friendly. They like and admire foreigners. They also like to take care of every (!) need of their guests (NOT a joke, hehehe).

>Thank you for your time!

Thanks for yours too.